[asio] Issues piling up

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[asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
there any strategy for addressing this?

Examples:

This one is going on a year:
<https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>

Two years:
<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>

Thanks

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
As a huge fan of asio, and a frequent user, I am also concerned about this.

What would be the process of becoming a maintainer?



On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 17:36, Vinnie Falco via Boost <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
> there any strategy for addressing this?
>
> Examples:
>
> This one is going on a year:
> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>
>
> Two years:
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Unsubscribe & other changes:
> http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost
>

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
On 10/11/18 12:04 PM, Richard Hodges via Boost wrote:

> As a huge fan of asio, and a frequent user, I am also concerned about this.
>
> What would be the process of becoming a maintainer?
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 17:36, Vinnie Falco via Boost <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
>> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
>> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
>> there any strategy for addressing this?
>>
>> Examples:
>>
>> This one is going on a year:
>> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>
>>
>> Two years:
>> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>
>>
>> Thanks

Is this true for the original ASIO version or just the Boost one?

Robert Ramey
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Unsubscribe & other changes:
>> http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 11/10/2018 16:36, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
> there any strategy for addressing this?

In the end, its maintainer is busy. I can sorely empathise, do note how
Outcome still ain't into Boost yet.

Vinnie do I remember rightly that you're in charge of some slush fund
for funding work on open source C++ or something? If so, it seems to me
the answer to your problem is obvious: get a paid helper for Chris, and
get those bugs pared down.

Niall

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:32 PM Robert Ramey via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is this true for the original ASIO version or just the Boost one?

Both.

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 11/10/2018 16:36, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
> there any strategy for addressing this?
>
> Examples:
>
> This one is going on a year:
> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>

I think it is fair to say from the commit history of Asio and the huge
amount of work that has gone into modifying and enhancing the library to
keep it in sync with the Networking TS that it is, in fact, being
actively maintained.

Some issues like #77 are in fact fixed, but the ticket hasn't been
closed. (I guess there are multiple places now where issues get raised
to add to the excitement). In an ideal world I'm sure we'd all be really
good at that, but given the huge importance of Asio to the C++ language
in general, no doubt some sort of time trade-off was made to prioritise
that work over pure issue hygiene?

>
> Two years:
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>

Certainly an interesting example but also a somewhat complex feature
request that brings with it a number of trade-off decisions that, (sadly
for some) means this presumably is a lower priority than other Asio work
- like the Networking TS and the many useful and significant updates
that have been made to support that, not to mention Executors...

Also from your contributions to the issue it looks like there is a
work-around implemented for a primary use-case (Beast) making this less
of a priority potentially.

Honestly as heavy user of Boost I sympathise with the sentiment, but I
think it is a real stretch, not to mention very unfair to the author and
maintainer of the library, to fire out a message like this that seems to
suggest Asio is not being actively maintained, or that there is some
pressing issue that needs to be addressed.

>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost
>



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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 10/11/2018 3:04 PM, Richard Hodges via Boost wrote:
> As a huge fan of asio, and a frequent user, I am also concerned about this.
>
> What would be the process of becoming a maintainer?

Just say here you would like to maintain the asio library and introduce
yourself and your background. Hopefully someone from the Boost Steering
Committee, like Michael Caisse, will respond, and you will be chosen to
maintain asio. Boost very much needs talented C++ programmers to
maintain libraries, and who have an interest and working knowledge of
particular Boost libraries.

>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 17:36, Vinnie Falco via Boost <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
>> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
>> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
>> there any strategy for addressing this?
>>
>> Examples:
>>
>> This one is going on a year:
>> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>
>>
>> Two years:
>> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>
>>
>> Thanks


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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 1:37 AM Edward Diener via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 10/11/2018 3:04 PM, Richard Hodges via Boost wrote:
> > As a huge fan of asio, and a frequent user, I am also concerned about this.
> >
> > What would be the process of becoming a maintainer?
>
> Just say here you would like to maintain the asio library and introduce
> yourself and your background. Hopefully someone from the Boost Steering
> Committee, like Michael Caisse, will respond, and you will be chosen to
> maintain asio. Boost very much needs talented C++ programmers to
> maintain libraries, and who have an interest and working knowledge of
> particular Boost libraries.

Since Asio is primarily maintained outside Boost, I would say
contacting the author and offering help to him directly would probably
be the way to go.

I don't think it is the Boost Steering Committee's job to decide who
should do the maintenance of a Boost library. It has always been the
author's decision.

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:37 PM Edward Diener via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Just say here you would like to maintain the asio library

That's nice in theory, but Boost.Asio is generated by this script
which runs on the stand-alone version of the source code:

<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/blob/master/asio/boostify.pl>

Making changes directly to Boost.Asio would essentially cause a fork,
so this isn't really an option. Anyway as Andrey said, it should be up
to the author to decide whether to bring on a helper.

We don't have to make changes to Boost.Asio directly, we can just
submit pull requests to the stand-alone Asio for new features and bug
fixes, as these people have done:

<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pulls>

Unfortunately, few if any of these pull requests get a response from
the maintainer, which brings us back to the problem described in the
original post...

There are quite a few useful, complete features which contributors
have taken the time to develop and submit but which have languished
with no response, sometimes for years. Examples:

Added wolfSSL Compatability for Asio instead of OpenSSL (5 months)
<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/321>

LibreSSL compatibility (1 year 7 months)
<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/196>

Add DTLS support to asio (2 years)
<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/129>

This one in particular is so sad, people have come back periodically
to beg for attention to the issue but they are met with silence:

Fix #116: Enables ECDHE temporary parameters in ASIO SSL #
<https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/117>

Some of these pull requests even manage to elicit lively and
productive discussions and revisions, but there's no official
response.

It would be nice to be able to close issues in Boost.Asio which are no
longer relevant or resolved, to reduce the noise.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that someone else should maintain the
library. I am only bringing attention to the fact that there is a lack
of official responses to issues in Asio's respective repositories, and
that pull requests are often ignored. This affects me indirectly,
since Beast is built on Asio. For example, I have to keep hearing from
users about the "Boost.Coroutine is deprecated" warning:

<https://travis-ci.org/vinniefalco/beast/jobs/439893521#L1212>

This is because Asio uses Boost.Coroutine which is supposedly
deprecated. But there is an impasse between the authors of those
respective libraries (Boost.Coroutine2 requires C++11, and Asio only
requires C++03). And me and my users are the casualties.

Regards

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 10/11/2018 7:22 PM, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 1:37 AM Edward Diener via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/11/2018 3:04 PM, Richard Hodges via Boost wrote:
>>> As a huge fan of asio, and a frequent user, I am also concerned about this.
>>>
>>> What would be the process of becoming a maintainer?
>>
>> Just say here you would like to maintain the asio library and introduce
>> yourself and your background. Hopefully someone from the Boost Steering
>> Committee, like Michael Caisse, will respond, and you will be chosen to
>> maintain asio. Boost very much needs talented C++ programmers to
>> maintain libraries, and who have an interest and working knowledge of
>> particular Boost libraries.
>
> Since Asio is primarily maintained outside Boost, I would say
> contacting the author and offering help to him directly would probably
> be the way to go.

I agree. I should have mentioned that the author should be contacted first.

>
> I don't think it is the Boost Steering Committee's job to decide who
> should do the maintenance of a Boost library. It has always been the
> author's decision.

If the author is not responsive then it should be decided by the Boost
Steering Committee. If the author is still involved in maintaining his
library, then of course he makes the decision.


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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 10/11/2018 8:08 PM, Vinnie Falco via Boost wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 3:37 PM Edward Diener via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Just say here you would like to maintain the asio library
>
> That's nice in theory, but Boost.Asio is generated by this script
> which runs on the stand-alone version of the source code:
>
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/blob/master/asio/boostify.pl>

Are you saying that their is code in Boost asio which relies on asio
code outside the Boost repository. That does not seem like a good
situation to me, unless that other code is publicly accessible. Even
then it is better if all code directly related to a library is contained
within the Boost repository of that library. I am of course not talking
about some 3rd party library code which is popular and publicly
accessible by everybody.

>
> Making changes directly to Boost.Asio would essentially cause a fork,
> so this isn't really an option. Anyway as Andrey said, it should be up
> to the author to decide whether to bring on a helper.
>
> We don't have to make changes to Boost.Asio directly, we can just
> submit pull requests to the stand-alone Asio for new features and bug
> fixes, as these people have done:
>
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pulls>
>
> Unfortunately, few if any of these pull requests get a response from
> the maintainer, which brings us back to the problem described in the
> original post...
>
> There are quite a few useful, complete features which contributors
> have taken the time to develop and submit but which have languished
> with no response, sometimes for years. Examples:
>
> Added wolfSSL Compatability for Asio instead of OpenSSL (5 months)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/321>
>
> LibreSSL compatibility (1 year 7 months)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/196>
>
> Add DTLS support to asio (2 years)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/129>
>
> This one in particular is so sad, people have come back periodically
> to beg for attention to the issue but they are met with silence:
>
> Fix #116: Enables ECDHE temporary parameters in ASIO SSL #
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/117>
>
> Some of these pull requests even manage to elicit lively and
> productive discussions and revisions, but there's no official
> response.
>
> It would be nice to be able to close issues in Boost.Asio which are no
> longer relevant or resolved, to reduce the noise.
>
> To be clear, I am not suggesting that someone else should maintain the
> library. I am only bringing attention to the fact that there is a lack
> of official responses to issues in Asio's respective repositories, and
> that pull requests are often ignored. This affects me indirectly,
> since Beast is built on Asio. For example, I have to keep hearing from
> users about the "Boost.Coroutine is deprecated" warning:
>
> <https://travis-ci.org/vinniefalco/beast/jobs/439893521#L1212>
>
> This is because Asio uses Boost.Coroutine which is supposedly
> deprecated. But there is an impasse between the authors of those
> respective libraries (Boost.Coroutine2 requires C++11, and Asio only
> requires C++03). And me and my users are the casualties.

I think if an author and/or maintainer of a Boost library is not at all
responsive to PRs and bug reports Boost should be able to assign another
maintainer. But of course the current maintainer should be contacted
first to see what his response to such a situation would be.

I just do not want to discourage anyone who is capable and wants to help
maintain a Boost library for which the current maintainer(s) are not
addressing problems. We have far less maintainers than we have libraries
so it is natural to want to encourage any capable person who wants to be
a maintainer of a library which is not being actively maintained well.

>
> Regards


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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 5:24 PM Edward Diener via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> If the author is not responsive...

I have to reiterate, the problem is not that the library is not
maintained. It is, there are updates in every Boost release and Asio
tracks networking-ts closely (obviously, since the sources are
generated from the stand-alone version which networking-ts is based
on).

I'm only pointing out that many issues and pull requests don't seem to
get any attention.

Thanks

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 12/10/2018 13:38, Edward Diener wrote:

> On 10/11/2018 8:08 PM, Vinnie Falco wrote:
>> That's nice in theory, but Boost.Asio is generated by this script
>> which runs on the stand-alone version of the source code:
>>
>> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/blob/master/asio/boostify.pl>
>
> Are you saying that their is code in Boost asio which relies on asio
> code outside the Boost repository. That does not seem like a good
> situation to me, unless that other code is publicly accessible. Even
> then it is better if all code directly related to a library is contained
> within the Boost repository of that library. I am of course not talking
> about some 3rd party library code which is popular and publicly
> accessible by everybody.

No, that's not what he's saying.

Asio exists in two forms -- as a standalone library and as a
Boost-integrated library.  Both have the same maintainer, and both are
publicly available.

The standalone library is considered the "real" source and the Boost
version is periodically generated by a script and then an "update patch"
committed.  (Usually the two are fairly closely in sync but sometimes
there's a longer delay -- the Boost version tends to be kept more
"stable" than the standalone version.)

Boost.Asio itself doesn't directly depend on any outside code, but it is
still effectively 'read only' in that regard, since if someone
independently made changes directly to this repository then they would
be overwritten the next time the code was synchronised with the
standalone repository.

> I just do not want to discourage anyone who is capable and wants to help
> maintain a Boost library for which the current maintainer(s) are not
> addressing problems. We have far less maintainers than we have libraries
> so it is natural to want to encourage any capable person who wants to be
> a maintainer of a library which is not being actively maintained well.

As Vinnie said, Chris is still actively maintaining the library,
insomuch as that relates to tracking changes from the standard and
fixing critical bugs.  But he's less responsive to feature requests.

I don't think this is the appropriate forum for discussing that, though;
concerns should be discussed with Chris directly.  I assume it's just a
case of disagreement about priority and time.

In any case, unless Boost.Asio were made a true independent fork (which
I assume wouldn't happen unless Chris stopped maintaining it entirely),
any changes have to land first in the standalone version, so PRs or
other maintenance requests have to be made there rather than here.

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Fri, Oct 12, 2018, 02:09 Vinnie Falco via Boost <[hidden email]>
wrote:

Snip


> There are quite a few useful, complete features which contributors
> have taken the time to develop and submit but which have languished
> with no response, sometimes for years. Examples:
>
> Added wolfSSL Compatability for Asio instead of OpenSSL (5 months)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/321>
>
> LibreSSL compatibility (1 year 7 months)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/196>
>
> Add DTLS support to asio (2 years)
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/129>
>
> This one in particular is so sad, people have come back periodically
> to beg for attention to the issue but they are met with silence:
>
> Fix #116: Enables ECDHE temporary parameters in ASIO SSL #
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/pull/117>
>
> Some of these pull requests even manage to elicit lively and
> productive discussions and revisions, but there's no official
> response.
>

I'm not too familiar with inner structure of asio but these pull requests
seem really intrusive and of type "when new ssl lib comes along it should
also be added direclty into asio lib" so it doesn't surprise me that they
weren't accepted.

That being said my guess would be that the same issue will arize with
Networking TS once it gets merged into C++ - and there pull requests for
such features must go through std library maintainers and the c++
committee. This makes me wonder if the patches are even the correct
solution or would they be better as a standalone library(es) that don't
need to polute asio with every man and his ssl version?


> It would be nice to be able to close issues in Boost.Asio which are no
> longer relevant or resolved, to reduce the noise.
>
> To be clear, I am not suggesting that someone else should maintain the
> library. I am only bringing attention to the fact that there is a lack
> of official responses to issues in Asio's respective repositories, and
> that pull requests are often ignored. This affects me indirectly,
> since Beast is built on Asio. For example, I have to keep hearing from
> users about the "Boost.Coroutine is deprecated" warning:
>
> <https://travis-ci.org/vinniefalco/beast/jobs/439893521#L1212>
>
> This is because Asio uses Boost.Coroutine which is supposedly
> deprecated. But there is an impasse between the authors of those
> respective libraries (Boost.Coroutine2 requires C++11, and Asio only
> requires C++03). And me and my users are the casualties.
>

I am using the experimental coroutine TS asio extensions (although I have a
memory leak that still need to see if it's my code, coroutine TS [both vs
c++ and clang], asio or beast issue) and there are also other options of
using asio (all of them without the need of changing either asio or beast
lib) so since boost.coroutine lib is being dropped dropping the feature in
favour of existing alternatives is also an option so I'm once again
wondering if the resolution is not the lack of maintanence but author's
decision to discontinue this (would be the logical move imho) - only the
author can answer.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
Domen

>

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 8:36 AM Vinnie Falco <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...issues...have been lingering in the Boost.Asio repository

Here's another example, today someone reported this warning about
deprecated allocator<void> in Beast:

<https://github.com/boostorg/beast/issues/1272>

But this problem is in Boost.Asio, which I reported in May:

<https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/109>

I can't do much about this except rant on the mailing list.

Regards

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:51 AM Vinnie Falco <[hidden email]> wrote:
> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/109>

This looks like a problem with MSVC not Asio, and is a duplicate of
another closed issue so it is resolved (thanks Peter!)

Regards

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Re: [asio] Issues piling up

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
A good solution for this is to create an "asio-next" repository which
tracks the original asio and stacks all the new features/PRs on top.
In other words, when a new release of asio happens, asio-next is reset
to it and the PRs are rebased again on top.

That way, the changes are not forgotten, they are kept in a state
where they work with all other features, tests can be run, people can
easily use it, etc.

Then, the maintainer of asio-next can be the gatekeeper of what
features might be interesting and stable enough for mainline asio,
removing most of the pressure from asio/Chris reviewing many big
requests that may prove risky. If/whenever asio/Chris agrees that such
a feature is good enough for mainline asio, it is picked into asio and
removed from the asio-next stack.

Finally, for Boost, whoever maintains the official asio-next also
keeps a new Boost.asio-next library in sync.

With this setup, users can easily pick asio-next tags or Boost
releases to take advantage of all the new asio code (which would be
relatively well tested). Or they can even merge themselves the
branch/tree of the feature they want into their own asio fork, if they
do not want the entire asio-next. At the same time, it lowers the time
commitment for the official asio maintainer, plus keeps it more
stable.

This is basically what linux-next does to manage and test dozens of
trees with new features.

Cheers,
Miguel

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 5:36 PM Vinnie Falco via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> There are issues which are years old which have been lingering in the
> Boost.Asio repository, and there are also old issues in the
> stand-alone Asio repository. It seems like these are being ignored, is
> there any strategy for addressing this?
>
> Examples:
>
> This one is going on a year:
> <https://github.com/boostorg/asio/issues/77>
>
> Two years:
> <https://github.com/chriskohlhoff/asio/issues/124>
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost

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