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Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
Hi,

In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
That is about Boost.Build, which I assume is the first to be updated to
support a new toolkit.

I haven't checked current commits history of individual libraries.
Status of VS2017 support in individual libraries may be at different stages.

Could anyone clarify any of these points:
- Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
- Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
- Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
instead of in a single shot?

[1] https://github.com/boostorg/build/pull/132
[2] http://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_63_0.html

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?

As far as I know Boost doesn't build at all with VS2017.


--
Olaf

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 10:11, Olaf van der Spek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>
> As far as I know Boost doesn't build at all with VS2017.

AFAICT, based on some attempts, I can confirm that too.
However, the merged pull request I linked makes me a bit
confused about the support, at least in Boost.Build.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 2/14/2017 4:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
> was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
> Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
> the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
> That is about Boost.Build, which I assume is the first to be updated to
> support a new toolkit.
>
> I haven't checked current commits history of individual libraries.
> Status of VS2017 support in individual libraries may be at different stages.
>
> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
> instead of in a single shot?

Support for a new compiler/version in Boost usually means two things:
support in Boost Build and support in Boost Config. So asking whether
Boost supports a particular new compiler/version implementation really
means asking if Boost Build and Boost Config support that compiler/version.

>
> [1] https://github.com/boostorg/build/pull/132
> [2] http://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_63_0.html
>
> Best regards,
>



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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 03:23, Mateusz Loskot via Boost <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 February 2017 at 10:11, Olaf van der Spek <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
> >> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
> >
> > As far as I know Boost doesn't build at all with VS2017.
>
> AFAICT, based on some attempts, I can confirm that too.
> However, the merged pull request I linked makes me a bit
> confused about the support, at least in Boost.Build.


Afaik VS2017 will be named VC14.1. The PR is wrong.

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
> was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
> Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
> the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
>

We never officially support, and hence don't mention in release notes,
support for unreleased toolsets. Even if we work toward supporting such
pre-releases.


> That is about Boost.Build, which I assume is the first to be updated to
> support a new toolkit.
>

Yes, it's a basic requirement.

I haven't checked current commits history of individual libraries.

Status of VS2017 support in individual libraries may be at different stages.
>

<http://www.boost.org/development/tests/develop/developer/summary.html>


> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>

No. As msvc-15 is not released yet.


> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>

No. As msvc-15 is not released yet.


> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
> instead of in a single shot?
>

Yes, and support for any toolset, even the really old ones, is always an
incremental work in progress. See the results linked above.

--
-- Rene Rivera
-- Grafik - Don't Assume Anything
-- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
-- rrivera/acm.org (msn) - grafikrobot/aim,yahoo,skype,efnet,gmail

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 13:43, Edward Diener via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/14/2017 4:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost wrote:
>>
>> In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
>> was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
>> Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
>> the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
>> That is about Boost.Build, which I assume is the first to be updated to
>> support a new toolkit.
>>
>> I haven't checked current commits history of individual libraries.
>> Status of VS2017 support in individual libraries may be at different
>> stages.
>>
>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>> instead of in a single shot?
>
>
> Support for a new compiler/version in Boost usually means two things:
> support in Boost Build and support in Boost Config. So asking whether Boost
> supports a particular new compiler/version implementation really means
> asking if Boost Build and Boost Config support that compiler/version.

Right.
And, since there has been activity regarding Visual Studio 2017
(initially referred by Microsoft to as Visual Studio "15")
in both, Build [1] and Config [2], those questions are still valid:
has the support been completed or is that work in progress?

Why Boost 1.63.0 release notes are silent about [1]?

[1] https://github.com/boostorg/build/pull/132
[2] https://github.com/boostorg/config/pull/110

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 13:48, degski via Boost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 February 2017 at 03:23, Mateusz Loskot via Boost <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 14 February 2017 at 10:11, Olaf van der Spek <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>> >> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>> >
>> > As far as I know Boost doesn't build at all with VS2017.
>>
>> AFAICT, based on some attempts, I can confirm that too.
>> However, the merged pull request I linked makes me a bit
>> confused about the support, at least in Boost.Build.
>
>
> Afaik VS2017 will be named VC14.1. The PR is wrong.

I take it as the PR was submitted at the time VS "15" Preview was available.

AFAIK, the numbers are currently set to:
VS 2017
Version number 15.0
CL version number: 19.10
Platform toolset: v141

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 14:01, Rene Rivera via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
>> was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
>> Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
>> the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
>>
>
> We never officially support, and hence don't mention in release notes,
> support for unreleased toolsets. Even if we work toward supporting such
> pre-releases.

I get it, thanks Rene!

>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>> instead of in a single shot?
>
>
> Yes, and support for any toolset, even the really old ones, is always an
> incremental work in progress. See the results linked above.

Thanks for that one too.

I've got it clarified now.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Mateusz Loskot via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In the mid of 2016, PR "Add support for Visual Studio 15" [1]
> was merged into develop and eventually into master branch.
> Although the patch was released in Boost 1.63.0,
> the release notes [2] are silent about that update.
> That is about Boost.Build, which I assume is the first to be updated to
> support a new toolkit.
>
> I haven't checked current commits history of individual libraries.
> Status of VS2017 support in individual libraries may be at different stages.
>
> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
> instead of in a single shot?

Looking at the dates, that patch was in June 2016 when VS2017 was not
released yet, and Boost 1.63 was released in December 2016 when VS2017
had still not released yet. Seems normal that VS2017 isn't one of the
supported implementations yet.

I imagine once VS2017/VC15/14.1 releases, the next Boost release after
that will aim to support it.

By then we'll probably also have working testers at:
1. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/master/developer/summary.html
2. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/develop/developer/summary.html

I see it happen organically (and generally quickly) once a new
implementation is officially released.

Glen

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Glen Fernandes via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>> instead of in a single shot?
>
> Looking at the dates, that patch was in June 2016 when VS2017 was not
> released yet, and Boost 1.63 was released in December 2016 when VS2017
> had still not released yet. Seems normal that VS2017 isn't one of the
> supported implementations yet.
>
> I imagine once VS2017/VC15/14.1 releases, the next Boost release after
> that will aim to support it.
>
> By then we'll probably also have working testers at:
> 1. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/master/developer/summary.html
> 2. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/develop/developer/summary.html
>
> I see it happen organically (and generally quickly) once a new
> implementation is officially released.

RCs have been available for months and RTM/RTW will be March 7th.

I don't get why the plan seems to be to wait for the final release.
Doesn't it just delay the work that has to be done?
Does it make the work significantly easier?

It does mean people can't test the new compiler with Boost..


--
Olaf

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
On 02/14/17 16:36, Olaf van der Spek via Boost wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Glen Fernandes via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>>> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>>> instead of in a single shot?
>>
>> Looking at the dates, that patch was in June 2016 when VS2017 was not
>> released yet, and Boost 1.63 was released in December 2016 when VS2017
>> had still not released yet. Seems normal that VS2017 isn't one of the
>> supported implementations yet.
>>
>> I imagine once VS2017/VC15/14.1 releases, the next Boost release after
>> that will aim to support it.
>>
>> By then we'll probably also have working testers at:
>> 1. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/master/developer/summary.html
>> 2. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/develop/developer/summary.html
>>
>> I see it happen organically (and generally quickly) once a new
>> implementation is officially released.
>
> RCs have been available for months and RTM/RTW will be March 7th.
>
> I don't get why the plan seems to be to wait for the final release.
> Doesn't it just delay the work that has to be done?
> Does it make the work significantly easier?

Yes, it does, because the final release may be significantly different
from the pre-released versions. It is not unheard of entire features
being removed or modified in the final release.

Personally, I think MSVC already consumes too much effort to support its
new versions. For example, I don't see as much fuss about testing gcc or
clang pre-releases - these get introduced silently to the test matrix,
with apparently no required changes to Boost.Build or Boost.Config.
(Well, the latter may need to be updated if a previously missing/broken
feature is supported in the new compiler, but that is not a showstopper.)


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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 14 February 2017 at 14:36, Olaf van der Spek via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Glen Fernandes via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>>> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>>> instead of in a single shot?
>>
>> Looking at the dates, that patch was in June 2016 when VS2017 was not
>> released yet, and Boost 1.63 was released in December 2016 when VS2017
>> had still not released yet. Seems normal that VS2017 isn't one of the
>> supported implementations yet.
>>
>> I imagine once VS2017/VC15/14.1 releases, the next Boost release after
>> that will aim to support it.
> [...]
>
> RCs have been available for months and RTM/RTW will be March 7th.
>
> I don't get why the plan seems to be to wait for the final release.
> Doesn't it just delay the work that has to be done?
> Does it make the work significantly easier?
>
> It does mean people can't test the new compiler with Boost..

Olaf's reasoning is what made me wonder and start this thread.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 2017-02-14 14:50, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:

> On 02/14/17 16:36, Olaf van der Spek via Boost wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Glen Fernandes via Boost
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Could anyone clarify any of these points:
>>>> - Does Boost.Build in Boost 1.63.0 officially support VS2017?
>>>> - Is there any schedule to fully support VS2017 in Boost 1.64.0?
>>>> - Or, is that left at discretion of maintainers of individual libraries
>>>> and VS2017 support might be reached gradually over several releases
>>>> instead of in a single shot?
>>>
>>> Looking at the dates, that patch was in June 2016 when VS2017 was not
>>> released yet, and Boost 1.63 was released in December 2016 when VS2017
>>> had still not released yet. Seems normal that VS2017 isn't one of the
>>> supported implementations yet.
>>>
>>> I imagine once VS2017/VC15/14.1 releases, the next Boost release after
>>> that will aim to support it.
>>>
>>> By then we'll probably also have working testers at:
>>> 1. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/master/developer/summary.html
>>> 2. http://www.boost.org/development/tests/develop/developer/summary.html
>>>
>>> I see it happen organically (and generally quickly) once a new
>>> implementation is officially released.
>>
>> RCs have been available for months and RTM/RTW will be March 7th.
>>
>> I don't get why the plan seems to be to wait for the final release.
>> Doesn't it just delay the work that has to be done?
>> Does it make the work significantly easier?
>
> Yes, it does, because the final release may be significantly different
> from the pre-released versions. It is not unheard of entire features
> being removed or modified in the final release.
>

We are not taking about about preview versions from last summer, we are
now at RC5, 3 weeks from the formal release.

You might want to consider that VS2017 is already the default download
at Microsoft's https://www.visualstudio.com/


And people start to wonder why Boost is so far behind...



    Bo Persson


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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
For those that keep complaining.. Just because we say that it's not
officially supported doesn't mean we haven't sitting on our hands. And not
working to support it. There have been various build changes to support it.
It's been tested since the first public pre-releases came out. Microsoft,
snd specifically STL, use Boost as a test of their compiler early on. And
once the tester that is running vc15 gets its configuration working again,
from Microsoft breaking it. You'll see a greener and more accurate
representation of what libraries work or not. And if you think that's
insufficient. We are particularly interested in people contributing
personal time and resources to test compilers. And right now running
regression tests for that particular compiler would be very welcome. And
hence from this thread I will assume that very shorty we will see at least
two of you run regression tests.

Thanks.

--
-- Rene Rivera
-- Grafik - Don't Assume Anything
-- Robot Dreams - http://robot-dreams.net
-- rrivera/acm.org (msn) - grafikrobot/aim,yahoo,skype,efnet,gmail

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 02/14/17 18:17, Bo Persson via Boost wrote:
> On 2017-02-14 14:50, Andrey Semashev via Boost wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it does, because the final release may be significantly different
>> from the pre-released versions. It is not unheard of entire features
>> being removed or modified in the final release.
>
> We are not taking about about preview versions from last summer, we are
> now at RC5, 3 weeks from the formal release.

Pre-release is pre-release, however you name it.

> You might want to consider that VS2017 is already the default download
> at Microsoft's https://www.visualstudio.com/

Frankly, I couldn't find what version they're offering to download on
that page. If it's a pre-release version, that seems like a poor choice
of a default to me.

> And people start to wonder why Boost is so far behind...

Right... Another one of those doomsday prophets.


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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Bo Persson via Boost
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> You might want to consider that VS2017 is already the default download at
> Microsoft's https://www.visualstudio.com/

It's not, though there's a 2017 RC button..


--
Olaf

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
[Andrey Semashev]
> the final release may be significantly different from the pre-released versions.
> It is not unheard of entire features being removed or modified in the final release.

Our process is that between Previews and RC, we enter "ask mode" (ask for permission to make changes), and between RC and RTM we enter "escrow mode", which is a very strict lockdown. The only bugs that are fixed in escrow mode are of the form "it's melting users' hard drives and the metal fumes are making people dizzy".

VS 2017 is a little different than before (in that we've intentionally had 4 release candidates so far, although not prominently branded as such), but we're definitely locked down now. A useful heuristic is that when we've publicly announced the release date for RTM, as we recently did (March 7), the time for major changes is long past.

The toolset (compiler/linker/libraries), which is what Boost is interested in, also locks down before the rest of the product, because we're at a low level in the stack. Throughout 10 years in Visual C++, I've taken several fixes through ask mode, but never through escrow mode that I can recall. We're focused on the next toolset update at the moment.

For Boost, the policy I would recommend is: treat Previews as unsupported (major feature changes in them), but attempt to support RC builds when they appear. This will lead to better synchronization between Boost and VS releases.

STL

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Stephan T. Lavavej via Boost <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> [Andrey Semashev]
> > the final release may be significantly different from the pre-released
> versions.
> > It is not unheard of entire features being removed or modified in the
> final release.
>
> Our process is that between Previews and RC, we enter "ask mode" (ask for
> permission to make changes), and between RC and RTM we enter "escrow mode",
> which is a very strict lockdown. The only bugs that are fixed in escrow
> mode are of the form "it's melting users' hard drives and the metal fumes
> are making people dizzy".
>
> VS 2017 is a little different than before (in that we've intentionally had
> 4 release candidates so far, although not prominently branded as such), but
> we're definitely locked down now. A useful heuristic is that when we've
> publicly announced the release date for RTM, as we recently did (March 7),
> the time for major changes is long past.
>
> The toolset (compiler/linker/libraries), which is what Boost is interested
> in, also locks down before the rest of the product, because we're at a low
> level in the stack. Throughout 10 years in Visual C++, I've taken several
> fixes through ask mode, but never through escrow mode that I can recall.
> We're focused on the next toolset update at the moment.
>
> For Boost, the policy I would recommend is: treat Previews as unsupported
> (major feature changes in them), but attempt to support RC builds when they
> appear. This will lead to better synchronization between Boost and VS
> releases.
>

+1

Times of changed; Microsoft and other compiler vendors used to be very
close lipped about what would actually be in a release. Nowadays the C++
community gets lots of notice and multiple release candidates well ahead of
releases. There is much more openness, and lots of two-way conversations,
both public and private. Times have changed.

The Visual Studio 2017 release is big deal - it means all major compilers
now support virtually all C++11 and C++14 features, and Boost library
maintainers can drop support for non-C++11 compilers in good conscience.
The sooner Boost Build and other aspects of boost support msvc 2017, the
better, IMO.

--Beman

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Re: Status of Visual Studio 2017 support

Boost - Dev mailing list
In reply to this post by Boost - Dev mailing list
On 2017-02-14 18:14, Olaf van der Spek via Boost wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 4:17 PM, Bo Persson via Boost
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You might want to consider that VS2017 is already the default download at
>> Microsoft's https://www.visualstudio.com/
>
> It's not, though there's a 2017 RC button..
>
>

Yes, sorry, I kind of assumed that the download button next to "VS2017"
would give you that version.



     Bo Persson



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